"China is digging out of a crisis. And America’s luck is wearing thin." — Ken Rogoff
Dwarkesh Podcast

"China is digging out of a crisis. And America’s luck is wearing thin." — Ken Rogoff

Jun 12, 2025 · 1h 36m

About this episode

<p><a target="_blank" href="https://rogoff.scholars.harvard.edu/">Ken Rogoff</a> is the former chief economist of the IMF, a professor of Economics at Harvard, and author of the newly released <a target="_blank" href="https://www.amazon.com/Our-Dollar-Your-Problem-Turbulent/dp/0300275315">Our Dollar, Your Problem</a> and <a target="_blank" href="https://www.amazon.com/This-Time-Different-Centuries-Financial/dp/0691152640">This Time is Different</a>.</p><p>On this episode, Ken predicts that, within the next decade, the US will have a debt-induced inflation crisis, but not a Japan-type financial crisis (the latter is much worse, and can make a country poorer for generations).</p><p>Ken also explains how China is trapped: in order to solve their current problems, they’ll keep leaning on financial repression and state-directed investment, which only makes their situation worse.</p><p>We also discuss the erosion of dollar dominance, why there will be a rebalancing toward foreign equities, how AGI will impact the deficit and interest rate, and much more!</p><p>Watch on <a target="_blank" href="https://youtu.be/P2b4TjQa4gk">YouTube</a>; listen on <a target="_blank" href="https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/dwarkesh-podcast/id1516093381?i=1000712621759">Apple Podcasts</a> or <a target="_blank" href="https://open.spotify.com/episode/2XPKYjWWL3wculkx5z6WiA?si=220a633569594e9b">Spotify</a>.</p><p><strong>Sponsors</strong></p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://workos.com/">WorkOS</a> gives your product all the features that enterprise customers need, without derailing your roadmap. Skip months of engineering effort and start selling to enterprises today at <a target="_blank" href="https://workos.com/">workos.com</a>.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://scale.com/dwarkesh">Scale</a> is building the infrastructure for smarter, safer AI. In addition to their Data Foundry, they recently released Scale Evaluation, a tool that diagnoses model limitations. Learn how Scale can help you push the frontier at <a target="_blank" href="https://scale.com/dwarkesh">scale.com/dwarkesh</a>.</p><p>* <a target="_blank" href="https://aistudio.google.com/app/live">Gemini Live API</a> lets you have natural, real-time, interactions with Gemini. You can talk to it like you were talking to another person, stream video to show it your surroundings, and share screen to give it context. Try it now by clicking the “Stream” tab on <a target="_blank" href="https://ai.dev/">ai.dev</a>.</p><p>To sponsor a future episode, visit <a target="_blank" href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/advertise">dwarkesh.com/advertise</a>.</p><p><strong>Timestamps</strong></p><p>(00:00:00) – China is stagnating</p><p>(00:25:46) – How the US broke Japan's economy</p><p>(00:37:06) – America's inflation crisis is coming</p><p>(01:02:20) – Will AGI solve the US deficit?</p><p>(01:07:11) – Why interest rates will go up</p><p>(01:10:55) – US equities will underperform</p><p>(01:22:24) – The erosion of dollar dominance</p> <br/><br/>Get full access to Dwarkesh Podcast at <a href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe?utm_medium=podcast&#38;utm_campaign=CTA_4">www.dwarkesh.com/subscribe</a>