Two clashing A.I. futures, plus a dancing robot, on the final Hard Fork Live
This preview is based on the episode’s published notes, not the full audio. The finale from Hard Fork Live sets up a debate between Sayash Kapoor and Daniel Kokotajlo over whether A.I. will spread like a normal technology or trigger a sharp acceleration, then shifts to a robot demo, a visit from Dwarkesh Patel and audience questions.
This is a preview based on the published show notes, so think of it as a guide to what the episode promises rather than a recap of everything said onstage. The main draw here is a direct contrast between two big-picture views of A.I.’s future. Sayash Kapoor, a Princeton researcher and co-author of **“AI as Normal Technology,”** is positioned as arguing that A.I. will diffuse through society in a more familiar, incremental way. Daniel Kokotajlo, executive director of the AI Futures Project and co-author of **“AI 2027,”** represents the opposite pole: the idea that a dramatic, unprecedented acceleration may be close. If you’re trying to decide whether to listen, this episode looks especially useful for people who want to hear competing frameworks side by side rather than just one forecast. The notes also suggest a lighter live-show energy after the debate segment, with George Ekas of Toberlife AI appearing alongside a dancing robot named Toby. The episode then broadens out again with a drop-in from tech podcaster Dwarkesh Patel and questions from the live audience. That mix of structured debate, onstage demo and audience interaction makes this sound like a good pick if you enjoy A.I. conversations that move between theory, spectacle and public curiosity. The additional reading links in the notes also hint that the episode is part of a larger conversation around A.I. forecasting, risk and how transformative this technology may actually be.
About this episode
<p>We’re back with our final installment from Hard Fork Live, recorded at the Yerba Buena Center for the Arts in San Francisco. In this episode, we’re joined by Sayash Kapoor and Daniel Kokotajlo to talk about their differing visions of A.I. transformation: why Sayash thinks A.I. will diffuse throughout society like a “normal” technology, and why Daniel thinks an unprecedented acceleration is just around the corner. Then we’re joined by George Ekas from Toborlife AI, along with his dancing robot Toby. Finally, the podcaster Dwarkesh Patel drops by, and we take a few questions from the live audience.</p> <p> </p> <p><strong>Guests:</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="https://www.cs.princeton.edu/~sayashk/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><strong>Sayash Kapoor</strong></a><strong>, </strong>an A.I. researcher at Princeton University and a co-author of the newsletter “AI as Normal Technology”</li> <li><a href="https://x.com/DKokotajlo" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><strong>Daniel Kokotajlo</strong></a>,<strong> </strong>the<strong> </strong>executive director of the AI Futures Project and a co-author of “AI 2027”</li> <li><strong>George Ekas</strong>, the director of engineering at Toberlife AI</li> <li><a href="https://www.dwarkesh.com/" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><strong>Dwarkesh Patel</strong></a>, a tech podcaster</li> </ul> <p> </p> <p><strong>Additional Reading:</strong></p> <ul> <li><a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2025/04/03/technology/ai-futures-project-ai-2027.html" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><strong>This A.I. Forecast Predicts Storms Ahead</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://knightcolumbia.org/content/ai-as-normal-technology" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><strong>AI as Normal Technology</strong></a></li> <li><a href="https://asteriskmag.substack.com/p/common-ground-between-ai-2027-and" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer"><strong>Common Ground Between AI 2027 & AI as Normal Technology</strong></a></li> </ul> <p><p>Subscribe today at <a href="http://nytimes.com/podcasts">nytimes.com/podcasts</a> or on Apple Podcasts and Spotify. You can also subscribe via your favorite podcast app here <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher">https://www.nytimes.com/activate-access/audio?source=podcatcher</a>. For more podcasts and narrated articles, download The New York Times app at nytimes.com/app.</p></p><br/> <p>Hosted by Simplecast, an AdsWizz company. See <a href="https://pcm.adswizz.com">pcm.adswizz.com</a> for information about our collection and use of personal data for advertising.</p>